The Promised Neverland Exhibition special interview: Secret Story of the Birth of an Original worldview

The Promised Neverland Exhibition is being held at the Roppongi Hills Observatory Tokyo City View in Minato-ku, Tokyo to commemorate the completion of the unique dark fantasy series that is very popular in Weekly Shonen Jump: "The Promised Neverland". Taking this opportunity, the author Kaiu Shirai and the artist Demizu Posuka responded to a long interview. How was the original view of the world of "TPN" born? What are the thoughts put into the escaped children facing a harsh fate? The interview is filled with secret stories revealed for the first time.

 A "Secret Plan" Only for Children

-I really like the illustration of Emma, ​​Ray, and Norman playing a game over their pillows which is exhibited at The Promised Neverland Exhibition. For the front color page of chapter 172 of the series, Demizu sensei commented on the venue plate: "This is a memorable illustration that I drew while thinking that this might be the last one."

An art piece condensing the world of The Promised Neverland that you'll never get tired of looking at (Chapter 172, front page) (All images are © Kaiu Shirai / Posuka Demizu / Shueisha)

Demizu: It's a summary illustration for the story. The series was also near the end, so I wanted to draw a picture where those three would be the focus. It's not a school trip's night, but I was conscious to add the feeling of a 'secret plan' only for children. It's a motif that often appears in my paintings.

Shirai: Not only the joy of the painting itself; but Demizu sensei's paintings also have many short stories. It's fun to find these hidden things one by one. Even though I've seen them many times, I feel like I can still enjoy them.

-This art piece is the same, the details of Demizu sensei's paintings are amazing.

Demizu: When drawing a picture thinking that I want to summarize the story so far, the number of things I wanted to add kept increasing. This art is filled with stories. The board game is different from actual chess, I wanted to reproduce the places the children went to on the board. I incorporated many motifs into this piece.

-Do you have any memories of staying up late similar to this chess scene?

Demizu: I think there are few. Staying up late as a kid is fun, but this picture is different from the culmination of those memories. My longing for a moment like this may be quite significant.

Shirai: I don't have many memories of staying up all night and playing games, either. As a kid, I liked going to my grandparent's house to stay at night. I had many relatives, I got along with them well. It was fun.

Demizu: I draw pictures with similar composition, but usually there's only a single character- playing games or reading books alone, for example. Those illustrations may be based on my own experiences. This one is a result of adding that composition into the world of TPN while matching with Shirai sensei's worldview. Displaying the three's relationship while thinking "It would be nice if something like this happened."

The Reason Behind The Abundance of Happy Illustrations 

-The story of TPN is quite dark and cruel, but the illustrations carry the feeling of happiness.

Isabella and the young children. The contrast with the dark story is eye-catching (Chapter 169, front page)

Shirai:  As the serious events resumed in the main story, it would've been difficult to read if even the front color pages were too serious. Weekly Shonen Jump goes on sale on Mondays. The week begins with going to school or works, so I'd found "Despair at 100%" to be painful. Demizu sensei would always come up with multiple drafts for the front pages, and there were times when I'd intentionally picked ones that made me feel happy.

Demizu: I didn't think so deeply. But when drawing a book cover, I think of something that a reader would easily pick up. I heard that it's less likely for the readers to pick up a book if the cover has dark colors. So, I'd aimed to make people want to read it with this type of view, so as to let them feel closer to the characters as much as possible.

-Where does Demizu sensei's idea of "fun things packed within a small space" come from?

Demizu: I like stuffing small spaces with fun things. But I think the particular series of paintings in this manga was created thanks to The Promised Neverland's worldview. Emma, Ray, and Norman are genius kids, so I thought about ways to show their smartness in the pictures. That's why books and picture books were often used as motifs. I think these are the arts which couldn't be produced without Shirai sensei's world.

Demizu sensei's favorite 'picture book.' There are many illustrations with book motifs (Chapter 45, front page)

The Nightmare of "A Restaurant with Many Orders"

-What's the history behind the birth of a story about demons eating children?

Shirai: Firstly, I think the grim dark fairy tales and Japanese folktales that I read were the basis. Mountain witches (Yamauba), children eater demons-ones like those. I saw a nightmare when I was in kindergarten: I entered a restaurant and was about to order something, but all the customers around me were animals and I'm the one to be eaten...

-Like Kenji Miyazawa's "A Restaurant with Many Orders".

Shirai: Yes, yes. I saw a nightmare like that the night I read it. I also like the concept of jailbreak similar to the western drama "Prison break". But it takes place inside a prison while I wanted to read stories about children breaking out from a prison. I think the draft I first brought was a culmination of these feelings.

-The legendary story of Shirai sensei suddenly bringing a 300-page draft storyboard to the Jump editorial department in the winter of 2013. I heard that it was difficult to rehash the draft for serialization and decide the drawing by Demizu sensei. How did Demizu sensei feel after reading Shirai sensei's original draft for the first time?

Demizu: I was surprised...At that time, my work focused on monster illustrations and children's manga, I never drew suspense. After turning few pages, I was filled with worries. Can I do this?

After all, the first chapter's concept was "from heaven to hell". Reading the first three chapters, I couldn't help feeling intrigued about its continuation. It was a worldview I had never experienced before. The problem was no more whether I can do it or not, what I felt was "If I'm going to draw it, I have to give it my all!" 

Sublimating the Negative Feelings into Creation

-It seems that the reason why the illustrator couldn't be easily decided was partly that the worldview of the story was too dark. How did you feel about this, Demizu sensei?

Demizu: No, I rather liked it. I was excited about the desperate situation. The illustrations I've published on Pixiv as a hobby often incorporate the slightly unpleasant and painful things I've felt in my daily life into fantasy. I highlight my negative feelings in pictures. I even wondered if Shirai sensei contacted me after noticing this.

Shirai: When writing the manga, I too often base it not on the things I like but rather those that I dislike, also my anger and regrets. Putting my dark thoughts into creation, I want to make readers happy. Fun things remain fun and don't need to be highlighted. However, if you keep piling up your negative thoughts within yourself, it's not good for your mental health. If you make use of it by adding it to your own work, you won't have to accumulate it. That's why a mangaka should pour it into their creations. That'll create new works and will let you lead a healthy life.

-You two have a fundamental similarity here.

Demizu: Hahaha, I never thought about it. But now being told, that might be it. Shirai sensei pulled out that side in me through TPN.

 If You Change Your Perspective, The World will Change

-Emma and her friends' actions always have unexpected surprises. In chapter 47, Emma and Ray hear from Sonju about the promise that divided the two worlds and learn that this is not the human's world but the demon's world. Emma and Ray jump up and rejoice, even though they would normally be in despair. ”It’s bad! But there’s something after this!” “it’s far better than we’ve imagined!”

A famous scene where you can see the positive side of Emma and Ray (Chapter 47)

Shirai: It’s about “If you change your perspective, the world will change.” Usually, we’d want to say “it’s hard” when something is difficult, but these are the children who’d say “thank goodness!” Rather than drawing it to direct the story, I think for these children, this reaction is natural.

-The words written by Shirai sensei have a pleasant rhythm, such as lingering.

Shirai: I majored in Kabuki in University, maybe that had an effect...Kawatake Mokuami’s 575 tones, for example.

But if we’re talking about rhythm, it has to be Eiichiro Oda sensei’s One Piece. I grew up with One Piece, so I think it naturally feels like that.

Really Believing that Ray had Died

-Demizu san, you’ve said that around the beginning, you weren’t informed much about the future of the story. What surprised you the most?

Demizu: Many times, but especially chapter 32 when Ray was about to set himself on fire. I drew Emma’s face when she screams “Ray!” believing that Ray really died. As a result, I think it turned out well.

Shirai: Especially in earlier days, I thought that if I dared not to share the story with Demizu sensei in advance, she'd draw the best arts. I didn’t even tell her the identity of the traitor which was revealed in chapter 12.

Demizu: That one surprised me too.

Shirai: Afterwards when we understood each other’s subtlety more, I started sharing with her. However, the story developments could be changed due to the weekly serialization questionnaire and it didn’t always go 100% as planned. Really, you couldn't tell what would happen.

-The plan to kill Ray initially, for example?

Demizu sensei didn't know the future of this scene (Chapter 32)

Shirai: Yes. Because moving to the next stage all by herself makes Emma’s growth quicker. It becomes easier to let her go to new places and interact with new people. Ray would guide Emma as a mentor within her heart.

That was the plan, but...

Demizu: At that time, Ray was surprisingly, really popular.

Shirai: Even the editor Sugita san. He once okayed it but then started saying “is it really okay to kill Ray?” From the beginning, he had no intention to let Ray die.

-Well, I think it’s for the best that you didn’t let him die. Maybe this could become a completely different story if Ray wasn’t there.

Shirai: Perhaps. But the character ‘Ray’ has the essence of being completed with GF escape. If this child goes as Emma’s support, how would his feelings and way of life change? I became curious. Long after in chapter 174, Ray was the only one who could say “if you have regrets, clear it up in the human world”, ”let’s go, all of you adults”. So in the end, I felt glad that he survived.

The Special Two for Ray

To Ray, Emma and Norman are always a set (Chapter 119)

-Ray or Norman, who was easier for Demizu sensei to draw?

Demizu: Ray is relatively closer to the characters that originally existed in me; such as his eyes and the hairstyle. So, he was easy to draw. Norman was difficult. He had the most dramatic change in the story, but being concerned about his growth, I think my art style also grew along with him.

-When reuniting with Norman in chapter 119, Ray’s action was impressive. Emma went straight to hug Norman. But Ray suddenly slapped him and then hugged both Norman and Emma together...

Shirai: That’s because Emma and Norman are a set to Ray. For 6 years, he kept searching for a route to escape from the hell inside Grace Field, because he really wanted to keep those two alive. To Ray, those two are ‘special’-that’s the case.

Norman isn't a Prince but a Horse

Norman (far left) is perhaps the most changed character in this series. The right image is Norman after two years (Chapter 154)

-About Norman, Shirai sensei's explanation to Demizu sensei was "he isn't a prince but a horse." What does it mean?

Shirai: Just for sharing a realization. If Norman were a prince riding the white horse, Emma would've become a princess. So I wanted to confirm that it's not the case. Emma is a Knight, Norman isn't the prince protecting the princess but her support; a white horse that lets the knight move as she pleases. If you compare it to Tezuka sensei's manga "Princess Knight", it's like the relationship of Sapphire and her beloved horse Opal. Norman isn't Prince Franz.

-Does Emma have the image of Sapphire within her character?

Shirai: No, it's not like that. After creating Emma and Norman within me, I rewatched Princess Knight and thought "Tezuka sensei is amazing!" It's just a metaphor.

-In that flow, what would be Ray's role?

Shirai: Ah, I've never thought about that. I guess he doesn't have one. If I dare to apply, maybe that one?... Tink the angel. (laughs) It's a lie, just kidding.

Emma is a Girl, But a Hero

Demizu: I also took these statements just as metaphors to understand Shirai sensei's worldview. So I don't draw Emma and Norman as a knight and her horse. The main premise was that "Emma isn't a princess".

-Emma is a 'hero', not a heroine.

Shirai: That's all that matters. Before anything else, the editor in charge Sugita san told me "Don't make her a target for the readers to have a crush on." Emma must be a character the readers can relate to.

Demizu: That aspect was difficult for me to draw. In the Grace Field House, Emma wore a white uniform with a skirt. So she can look very girly depending on how she's drawn. Although she has some boyish elements, she's still a girl. I always had to pay attention to it.

Who is the Girl under the Cover of Volume 1?

-Isabella mainly appears in the first stage of the manga, the jailbreak. But she has an overwhelming presence as if she's the leading role behind the scenes. 

Shirai: I wanted to depict the multifaceted nature of humans in this manga. Of course, there are people who we can't forgive. But I've been wondering if the enemies that should be defeated by poetic justice are 100% evil. That's why Isabella, demons, Emma, her friends are all multifaceted.

-When you remove the cover of the first volume, a black-haired girl stands in the volume's undercover with the same background scenery. That was surprising. At the time of reading Volume 1, no one knew who she is.

Volume 1 cover illustration. If you remove the cover, a mysterious girl stands on the same landscape. There are similar gimmicks in other volumes, as well.

Shirai: It was Demizu sensei's idea. At the time of volume 1 release (Dec. 2016), Isabella's young appearance wasn't yet shown in the magazine. The first thing a magazine reader noticed after following this chapter was- "It's Isabella!". It pleased them a lot. I'm very grateful to Demizu sensei for showing it this way.

Demizu: It was one of several drafts. Really, I thought it was too early to reveal... but Shirai sensei chose it and said "This one, because of the timing". I thought that's amazing.

The Prettiest and the Coolest

-Isabella is a ruthless, demonic mama in the Grace Field escape arc, but the words "I wish I could just love them normally" were also her truth...

Shirai: That's right. Even though Isabella really loves these children and wants to help them, a chip is embedded in her heart. Even if she runs away, it's a demon society so she won't be helped. Rather than being caught in a rebellion and having all the children shipped out, it was her "justice" to give her children a happy time as long as she could. I can't say that the judgment is wrong.

But this was still an excuse for her to justify herself. The existence of her real son made her realize that she just wanted to survive. A poor person.

-But you can say that Emma and her friends escaped the prison and changed the world because the super talented Isabella taught her children well. 

Shirai: I don't know if she had this intention, but I'm glad the readers interpreted it that way.

Demizu: Isabella was very difficult to draw, and she's a complex character on top of that. She's the prettiest and the coolest character in this series. It's difficult to draw a beautiful woman. The beauty must not be spoiled in any situation.

Isabella is back. She's beautiful! She's also scary! (Chapter 162)

-In a sense, Isabella is prettier than the demon Queen, Reglavalima.

Demizu: That's right. Since the demons' eyes are hidden behind a mask, drawing their faces isn't as stressful. Human characters, especially Isabella, are more important to look at. So that's the bigger stress.

Leuvis: Was He Raising the Children?

-If Isabella was the mother figure in this story, who was the father figure? I was wondering if the Demon Leuvis played the role of a spartan father.

Grand Duke Leuvis, the deadliest demon. He shows a surprising side in him at the end of the story (Chapter 87)

Shirai: How so?

-Isabella and Leuvis both became serious enemies of the children. They both pushed the children to extremes, I noticed that similarity. As a result, the children grew up fast.

Shirai: I see, you mean how that they helped the children grow up. Well, fathers aren't the only ones to play that role.

The Hunting ground where Leuvis appeared was created as a part of the story development for the 'changed' route, where the theme was to create intelligent demons. Among them was Leuvis who was a very skilled and scary hunter but he paid respect to humans. Initially, I didn't think much about him and didn't know that he'd end up having such a strong presence. I gave Demizu sensei a terrible load with his design.

Demizu: Leuvis is scary, but he has the image of a gentleman. It was difficult within the time limit because many demon characters appeared at once. But it was fun to think about their designs, to make them look good when lined up on the screen. I didn't expect Leuvis to play such a strong role later. Shirai-sensei expanded it steadily.

Drawing Peter was Fun

Peter, the "Dad" of the cattle children, goes out of control (Chapter 172)

Shirai: If I have to choose a father figure from this series, I think it's Peter Ratri, after all. A self-proclaimed dad, though. (laughs)

Demizu: Peter is really a detestable guy, but it's fun to draw the face of a detestable guy. I thought that his changes of expressions near the end were really interesting.

-Is Peter the most detestable character in this series?

Shirai: I really dislike Andrew. But there can be room to understand even him because he had bad education and environment. Due to these things, I think that human beings are multifaceted.

What's Left Behind with Ayshe

-Speaking of multifacetedness, Ayshe, the girl raised by a demon was also a fascinating character.

Ayshe had few appearances, but she is popular (Chapter 139)

Demizu: Ayshe is one of my personal favorite characters. She only appeared in the latter part, but a demon-human bonding could be created because of her.

Shirai: To show the multifacetedness of humans, Ayshe was a character I had in mind even before the serialization began. But I considered finishing the series without stretching it too far because it'd increase the braches of the story.

In chapter 160, Norman told Ayshe something in demon language which wasn't revealed in the main story. I want to write a side story later.

-To Ayshe, Norman's group was her parent's enemy. Perhaps the demon world is her hometown...

Shirai: That's right. What does she think after arriving in the human world? I want to show it somewhere.

The Wish to Live Together

-Emma and her friends' wish to live together seems to be the biggest theme throughout the work "The Promised Neverland." Was that a concept decided from the beginning?

Shirai: I thought it's one of the important values in The Promised Neverland. Demons are enemies, but is it okay to annihilate them completely? We, humans, eat as well. We take the lives of animals and plants. Is there a way to save own family without killing the demons? I had a feeling that this question would eventually be raised someday. But I wasn't thinking about following the axis of the phrase "Let's live together" from the beginning. I think it happened naturally with the progression of the story. Isn't it best to be able to "live together" with the family, also with the demons? It's impossible by oneself, but it became possible because everyone worked together. 

-The scene from Chapter 172 where Emma reaches out to Peter Ratri, the root of all evil, to "live together" is impressive.

Something no one else can do. This is the true value of Emma (Chapter 172)

Shirai: I absolutely wanted her to say that. Being able to do so is Emma's greatness. Perhaps, some would see her as a Monster.

Is Emma a Monster, or a Child who wants to be a Friend?

-A Monster... What do you mean by that?

Shirai: The way she swiftly jumps over the wall of hatred and grudge that one can't overcome. Emma's family was killed by the demons, she herself was almost eaten as a premium quality meat, and she has seen crazy demons like Leuvis. She can still say "I don't want to kill the demons" and I think it makes her great.

I want to be like her. But I think some people may see her as an alien, a child with an incomprehensible mentality. That was something I was concerned about and paid attention to.

Demizu: No, I didn't think like that. Isn't Emma such a good girl? If you ask me who I want to be friends with the most, it's Emma. She's kind to everyone and friendly.

Shirai: I'm a twisted person. (laughs)

Demizu: Of course, it could stand out if Emma alone was like that. But both Norman and Ray have their good and dangerous sides. I think it's nice that they make a family with a delicate balance. This balance is Shirai sensei's worldview. I want to become Emma's friend, while accepting her dangerous sides.

A Story that Leads to the Present

-During serialization, the Trump administration was born in the United States. The word "division" echoed all over the world while highlighting the issues of societal discrimination and disparity. Did it affect this work?

Shirai: That's not the case at all. People from western media often ask, "Does your work reflect the current state of the world?" "What's your message?" I don't think about that. I was just thinking about delivering something interesting that resonates with a reader's every moment. Or rather, I couldn't afford to think about anything else.

However, the readers and I are all living in this world now and it's bound to resonate with the reader and myself. Maybe it was related to that subconscious side in me.

-In Chapter 172, there is a scene where the 2020 world situation is inserted like a flashback, it wasn't the world from 2047 where Emma and others are in. You can also see the word "Corona". It was very impressive.

 

The present world deep within confusion. The feelings of Shirai sensei and Demizu sensei are transmitted (Chapter 172)

Shirai: I wanted readers to feel that this is not a fantasy world, but a story of this world that's in the news right now. I wanted to confine the appearance of the real world on that page, I thought it'd reach the readers' hearts.

I added a piece about Corona because I thought that humans were being so stupid and down due to an unknown virus at that time. Not only the distant countries but also in Japan. You can't prevent the virus by being unscrupulous, hurting others, and becoming violent. Humans should be smarter. But fear doesn't let them think. It's just an example given on that page. Everyone, let's be a little more mature!

But I was worried that the timing and events were too specific, so I consulted with Demizu sensei. She said it was okay and it'd be the first manga where Corona is portrayed like that.

Demizu: Because I too thought it was necessary. Even keeping this year's Corona aside, there are chaos, discrimination, and poverty in the world. I thought these things should definitely be touched on in the story.

Shirai: "Let's live together" are words that naturally come from Emma and her friends. It wasn't a message towards society. Though there are times I think it would be nice if everyone could live in harmony.

 

There was an Ending with Emma's death

-Emma and friends arrive in the human world in 2047, suggesting that 2020~30 was a dark era full of disasters and wars. Does that have anything to do with the present situation?

Shirai: That's right. I felt that the world is moving in a slightly unexpected direction. The human world proceeding towards chaos and division to the point where it reversed and became peaceful-I tho setup isn't unrelated to the situation of the world this year. I thought it's wrong to show 'a peaceful and happy world where nothing happened' to the readers who are experiencing this world situation right now.

-It was shocking that Emma as she arrives in the human world loses her memory. I presume it was your last concern as an author.

Shirai: Actually, there was a plan where Emma died. But I didn't do that, thinking how the readers wanted a happy ending. But if everything went well, it'd have been opportunistic and too easy for Emma. That's a problem. For Emma to do something great as this, she had to lose something. That became her 'memory'.

The Secret Behind the Photo with Only Emma

Demizu: When I heard the brief summary of the story, I was sad but I thought it was a wonderful ending. But at that time, I misunderstood and thought that Emma's memory would disappear from her family.

Shirai: It lead to the photo scene from chapter 180. Demizu sensei gave me a draft art for the front page where only Emma disappeared from the photos they took long ago. I thought "Whoa, it's so emotional!"; and reversed it. I drew a scene where only Emma was shown and the surroundings disappeared.

-A photo with Emma making a strange pose by herself. I couldn't remember at first, but it was originally the photo of Emma and Norman taken by Ray with an instant camera at the Grace Field House. Ray gave the photo to Emma in Chapter 32. But in Chapter 180, Norman disappeared from the photo...

Shirai: Without Demizu sensei's draft idea, it wouldn't have been possible.

Posuka: Is that so? I was thinking "You thought about these details, Shirai sensei, as expected from you!"

The photo shown in Chapter 180 was handed over by Ray in this scene (Chapter 32)

-Is it okay to ask a question? Emma's ID number from her neck disappeared. Did her lost ear return as well?

Shirai: I think it didn't. In this work, I decided that I wouldn't do things like making someone return to their previous state after an injury, or reviving someone who died.

It's a difficult problem, but I tried not to show death as salvation. I did it exceptionally with Yugo, but I didn't really want to show things like the reunion of the characters with the dear people from the past after death. I wanted the readers to keep in mind that they can surely find happiness staying alive; I want the readers to live and be happy.

Demizu: Because of this ending, the special chapter exhibited at The Promised Neverland Exhibition was born. It was possible to transmit her family's will to live to Emma. I think Shirai sensei is really incredible.

Has Emma Returned to Being an Ordinary Girl?

-It's painful that Emma lost her memories, but I like to think that after carrying so much burden on her back, Emma became an ordinary girl.

Shirai: That's not what I meant, though... In the past, Emma cried in fear in Chapter 1. I think the Emma that became a leader afterward was an 'Emma' who wouldn't have appeared if she weren't in this extreme situation.

Even Norman. if it weren't for this harsh world, he would've been a softer child and wouldn't be saying scary things like "Let's annihilate the demons." I think everyone has that kind of Monster hidden within their heart.

In that sense, maybe Emma has returned to being an ordinary child. But Emma is Emma, so if there's a chance, I think that 'amazing Emma' will come out again. 

Staying White and Growing up

-J.M. Barrie's Neverland was "A world where you can remain as a child forever". However, in this work, Neverland is "A world where you can't become an adult when you want to"; which reverses that meaning. Last question, what does it mean to become an adult?

Shirai: I'm at a loss...Osamu Dazai's wrote: "An adult is a betrayed young man." (source: Return to Tsugaru) It's like, you become an adult once you accept  the presence of a turbid nature within yourself. But I don't want Emma and her friends to be dyed in black and fall into such a grey zone. I think they can grow up while remaining 'white'.

Demizu: Yes, it's a difficult question. Personally, when I went from high school to college, there was a time when I felt that being an adult was being free and having fun. Adults can choose for themselves and live on their own. I want the characters in this story to feel that way.

-In Chapter 109, Yugo advised Emma that Making a correct decision isn't everything, but one needs to give an effort to make the decision that has been made to be correct. I think the words were great. Are those words said to the children as an adult?

Yugo who was no more present, advises Emma to "proceed forward." (Chapter 109)

Shirai: Maybe being an adult is finding a way to live your own way, even after making many mistakes. I think that's how Yugo and Isabella reached their adulthood.

<End>

Interview by: 石田汗太

12.2.2020

Source: yomiuri.co.jp